[Musashi]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

So in other words you have nothing to backup your position. You should have just said that to begin with.

Not only was the M3 the best selling M car in 2023 is was the best selling high-performance sports car in the world. I would imagine BMW is happy with those results.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2024/01/11/bmw-m3-sedan-best-selling-m-car-2023/

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/south-africa/article/detail/T0439058EN/bmw-m-gmbh-continues-to-grow:-more-than-200-000-vehicles-delivered-within-one-year-for-the-first-time?language=en

Your reply is one of the best and smartest posted here as it is an argument. Although there is a data sampling issue you used 3 series growth on itself as reference . In reality they are a fringe within BMW overall sales that are now SUV dominant. Sedans are declining.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Musashi

Your reply is one of the best and smartest posted here as it is an argument. Although there is a data sampling issue you used 3 series growth on itself as reference . In reality they are a fringe within BMW overall sales that are now SUV dominant. Sedans are declining.

No, that is not correct. As stated in both articles, the data is for the M3. As far as comparing the sale of M3 to other BMW products, not part if this discussion.

What you need to do is when you make a statement you need to back it up. Just saying some things that are true doesn't do that if they are on a totally different subject. All your posts are doing is making you look worse. What you need to do is either admit you just made something up to cause a discussion or just stop posting.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Musashi

In 2023 BMW USA reported 363,224 vehicles. 33,000 were 3 series. Within these , on the forum, BMW USA staffers report 5,000 M3 series (3 platform) produced. So say 5,000/363,224 x100= 1.92% for what was supposed to be the next generation trend. Are these numbers acceptable facts - not arguments? As well pick up the new launches including the new 2 series and M2- small grilled. X5. 3-5-7 series. Etc. are these small grilles acceptable facts / trends ? Is

No, you are making up statistics to back an argument that is not being discussed. Future trends have nothing to do with your original statement.

[Gfit]

Everyone should have their own opinions but not the very own facts. It appears to me, everywhere I look I see big grill BMWs. I can’t say they are doing well based upon that because that may not be a fact. If I were to guess I would say BMW is doing just fine.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

No, you are making up statistics to back an argument that is not being discussed. Future trends have nothing to do with your original statement.

Are you delusional or just try to poke above class? You came up with 3 series statistics. My argument was about the X3 - the hood, doors sides etc. not its grille. Do you know how to dissect an argument from P1 to Px = Conclusion and evaluate along ARG ? (Acceptability Relevance grounds)? You came up with the 3 series sales and self embarassed with a comment that had nothing to do with the X3 its proportions my argument. Or perhaps you were anchored by the amateurish replies and fallacies and sucocmbed to anchor bias? For sure your 3 series links provided are sample bias and not even relevant to the X3 nor even the grille argument. I can do this at the graduate levels but it will be badly embarrassing to you. Do you have anything to comment wrt my original reply and argument? No one made statistics, you came with links referring to quantitative arguments that were irrelevant to the qualitative argument at hand. You then challenged for numbers and were embarassed by the numbers reply you got. Sorry but I cannot cram here common sense not critical thinking. Can you specify what statistic was invented and cite Specifically ? The 1.92% is based on published BMW numbers. You throw numbers but cannot handle what they mean. FYI in university they do teach varying critical thinking research tools and so on. Finishing college and going a level up is highly recommended. At the graduate level it is beyond argumentation, but the finite analysis of the methodology used to postulate a thesis and much more. 1.92 % take it or go back to school to learn reading BMWs own corporate reports. Which BTW in case you do not know are legal and regulatory requirements …

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by Gfit

Everyone should have their own opinions but not the very own facts. It appears to me, everywhere I look I see big grill BMWs. I can’t say they are doing well based upon that because that may not be a fact. If I were to guess I would say BMW is doing just fine.

It is interesting that this started with my commenting on the hood and sides - been near it inside seen it etc- and I also stated same post- its grille was not the issue. It still is not. However folks with very limited abilities jumped on grills selling which- as we know for BMW numbers are less than 2% and shrinking as the next Gen M3 is not coming with them.

[misterioso]

Duplicate Monroney labels can be ordered from https://monroneylabels.com/. It's $10 for a digital copy.

I used to pass along a folder or binder of service records and the Monroney label whenever I sold a car, but nowadays, I only keep digital records, so I'll give the next owner a flash drive containing all the pertinent car information.

These days, the automakers don't even bother including a hard copy owners manual with new cars; they're instead stored electronically in the car's info system. There's probably going to be a day when paper Monroneys will disappear. They'll put a small sticker with QRC code on the window which you can use to view the car's specs and options.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Musashi

Are you delusional or just try to poke above class? You came up with 3 series statistics. My argument was about the X3 - the hood, doors sides etc. not its grille. Do you know how to dissect an argument from P1 to Px = Conclusion and evaluate along ARG ? (Acceptability Relevance grounds)? You came up with the 3 series sales and self embarassed with a comment that had nothing to do with the X3 its proportions my argument. Or perhaps you were anchored by the amateurish replies and fallacies and sucocmbed to anchor bias? For sure your 3 series links provided are sample bias and not even relevant to the X3 nor even the grille argument. I can do this at the graduate levels but it will be badly embarrassing to you. Do you have anything to comment wrt my original reply and argument? No one made statistics, you came with links referring to quantitative arguments that were irrelevant to the qualitative argument at hand. You then challenged for numbers and were embarassed by the numbers reply you got. Sorry but I cannot cram here common sense not critical thinking. Can you specify what statistic was invented and cite Specifically ? The 1.92% is based on published BMW numbers. You throw numbers but cannot handle what they mean. FYI in university they do teach varying critical thinking research tools and so on. Finishing college and going a level up is highly recommended. At the graduate level it is beyond argumentation, but the finite analysis of the methodology used to postulate a thesis and much more. 1.92 % take it or go back to school to learn reading BMWs own corporate reports. Which BTW in case you do not know are legal and regulatory requirements …

Never mind, I see you are here strictly to be a troll and not have an adult conversation. Hopefully you will follow those who have taken that childish position before you and leave once you are ignored and not engaged.

[bandersen]

Musashi , with a reputation score of 137 - get an f’ing life. No one here cares that you google ‘thesaurus’ every sentence, or work in an Amazon parking lot with 1000 vehicles.

The new car sounds nice - drives well, looks OK, not sure about the interior though.

[swainbmw]

Originally Posted by Musashi

It is well equipped. Although in person I found it hideous especially when next to other X3s and X5s. No it is actually not the grille. The door handles and protection beam above are ugly. Then the hood. It is the ugliest hood on BMW SUV history, elevated massively to presumably give room to the hybrid motor or cooling or to resolve the aero and drag coefficient vs windshield? It looks something more like Lexus 550 hood but that is a boxy car that deserves it. all makers have paid attention to this hood/ fender height ratio and gone for a high fender to hood ratio and subtle transition line. Get inside the car and so the hood towers even when seated! In person to me it looked hideous and disproportionate in its characterless side and overstated high hood. I am sure it will suffer as did other recent BMWs such as big grille. But difficult to propose clients when they have beautiful X5s X7s or lrevgen X3/ next to it, for clients to knowingly rush to get this one. Maybe it is designed to funnel people to the X5? Who knows or maybe BMW leftover designers are as eclectic as their varying outputs.

I actually viewed the car at the dealership the other day And I really liked the design. I’m hoping the new X5 when it comes out has a similar look. The main thing that I liked was the hood design and the height of it.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

So in other words you have nothing to backup your position. You should have just said that to begin with.

Not only was the M3 the best selling M car in 2023 is was the best selling high-performance sports car in the world. I would imagine BMW is happy with those results.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2024/01/11/b...ng-m-car-2023/

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/south...me?language=en

The sad part is that there really is no competition now for M3.
Current S4 and C63 are a joke, Alfa Giulia hype died down, ISF no longer exists.
CT4 is not attractive.
Too bad Porsche doesn’t offer anything in the segment.

[tkila]

Test drove a 2025 X3 with base engine today, found the squarish steering wheel to be severely lacking in tightness and feel. There is so much slack compared to a 2024 X5 40i that I also test drove after. The suspension is awful over speed bumps lacking any sort of damping, maybe getting m sport suspension is a must- I do not know. Biggest disappointment has got to be the interior, feels like a Japanese SUV costing half the price, controls are super cheap and flimsy.

Yet, this car sold right after I test drove it. I was literally still in the dealership when it got sold. Can't believe these things are selling like hot cakes.

If it was my money, I'd go the GLC43 route.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Gfit

So bottom line is you love it right? Anyway, M3 with the big grille is still going for MSRP how many years later? Curious which big grille BMW is suffering?

Numbers aside I’d never buy one

And I am not alone

So be it

[JoeyO]

The OP got the Dune Grey color. I really like that color. I like it with the red colored brakes. Maybe I like it because they’re not many vehicles on the road with that color. Saab used to make a color similar to it.

But I’ve heard that some people view the color as a boring color for “old farts.” Some people say it’s a color for Buicks and Lexuses. Some people say it is not sporty. What’s the consensus here? If I don’t order Dune Grey, then my second choice is Alpine White.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

The OP got the Dune Grey color. I really like that color. I like it with the red colored brakes. Maybe I like it because they’re not many vehicles on the road with that color. Saab used to make a color similar to it.

But I’ve heard that some people view the color as a boring color for “old farts.” Some people say it’s a color for Buicks and Lexuses. Some people say it is not sporty. What’s the consensus here? If I don’t order Dune Grey, then my second choice is Alpine White.

It’s a personal choice, so what does it matter how other people view it ?

Beige would go great down the nursing home, and whilst BMW used it at launch, it seems to have gone with Fire Red for review cars.

[Gfit]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Numbers aside I’d never buy one

And I am not alone

So be it

I get it. It’s not for everyone. I was just having some fun with his confusing thought process. I would have replaced my wife’s 23 X3M with one but they no longer make it so I just got rid of it because it was her turn for a new car. I’m actually glad it worked out that way as it forced us to switch things up and the MSRP on her new car was almost double the X3M but payment is less. I still have my BMW but they lost one customer but for different reason than big grill or design.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Gfit

I get it. It’s not for everyone. I was just having some fun with his confusing thought process. I would have replaced my wife’s 23 X3M with one but they no longer make it so I just got rid of it because it was her turn for a new car. I’m actually glad it worked out that way as it forced us to switch things up and the MSRP on her new car was almost double the X3M but payment is less. I still have my BMW but they lost one customer but for different reason than big grill or design.

Nice….

What did you end up getting your wife?

[wdeerfield]

$1k a month lease 😂 after shelling out $6k. For an x3. That use to be 7 series numbers.

[Gfit]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Nice….

What did you end up getting your wife?

Sooooo. I’m was as shocked as you will be. I was one of those that said I’m never getting an EV until they force me but the deals are amazing right now, there’s very few of these on the road which I like and the performance is similar to my M8. An Audi Etron GT RS. The only thing I’m a little bothered by is she now gets more compliments than I do in my M8. lol. Seriously though, it’s ridiculous the amount of attention it gets from all demographics. I think it’s her big hips. The Audi’s!

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Gfit

Sooooo. I’m was as shocked as you will be. I was one of those that said I’m never getting an EV until they force me but the deals are amazing right now, there’s very few of these on the road which I like and the performance is similar to my M8. An Audi Etron GT RS. The only thing I’m a little bothered by is she now gets more compliments than I do in my M8. lol. Seriously though, it’s ridiculous the amount of attention it gets from all demographics. I think it’s her big hips. The Audi’s!

Etron might just be about the best current Audi design. It looks sleek and has road presence. To me it looks better than Taycan. Please report back how the ownership goes and gl!

[chrisj355]

I just went and looked at one in person while I wait for mine to come in.

Overall nicer in person and the interior isn’t as bad as advertised. Definitely different, but livable.

The M steering wheel is very nice.

Only real complaint is no sunglass holder.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Gfit

Sooooo. I’m was as shocked as you will be. I was one of those that said I’m never getting an EV until they force me but the deals are amazing right now, there’s very few of these on the road which I like and the performance is similar to my M8. An Audi Etron GT RS. The only thing I’m a little bothered by is she now gets more compliments than I do in my M8. lol. Seriously though, it’s ridiculous the amount of attention it gets from all demographics. I think it’s her big hips. The Audi’s!

Best wishes, enjoy, and be safe. Don't charge past 80%. May wish to park it outside your garage. This was just published.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/a...it-240993.html